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LISA SCHNEIDER

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Obama's Policy Versus Personality: Which Will Get Us Out of the Economic Crisis?

Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:50 PM EDT
politics, obama, economy, polls, lobbyists, bailouts, doma, ama, bank-bailouts
By Lisa Schneider

Live Poll

What Do You Base Your Favorable Opinion of Obama on?

View Results
  • 44252
    Policy
    8%
  • 44253
    Personality
    0%
  • 44254
    Both
    31%
  • 44255
    Neither...I Do Not Have A Favorable Opinion
    61%

VoteTotal Votes: 36

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For most everything I analyze, I strive to see it from a most personal perspective. In answering this question for myself, I applied it to how I would decide who I might want to have a relationship with…what kind of qualities would a man have that would keep me happy long term? I mean, he could be drop dead gorgeous, charismatic, endearing to so many people, but if he constantly lied…talked the talk, but didn't walk the walk, only explored the surface in evaluating life decisions, and only used humor to deflect from serious matters, the folly wouldn't last long. What if he was instead unattractive, but had a spine of steel, a mind that inspired, decisiveness in making tough decisions, and to not tell people what they want to hear but rather what they need to hear…unwavering honesty. I voted for Obama because he presented himself as one of those people that possess a nice mixture of these qualities…attractive, charismatic, spine of steel, a brilliant mind, promised he would not cater to special interests/lobbyists, and I believed him to be an honest man. I voted for him because I also believed him to be a man that would evaluate everything he did at the deepest levels…always beginning with the end in mind, utilizing results-based, critical thinking. He seemed to have it all, but now he is relying far too greatly on the "attractive" and "charismatic" qualities that were lowest on my list of priorities then, and even more so now.

Over the course of the last few months, I've been sorely disappointed in the policies of President Obama. When I first began to question what he was doing, I felt bad about it because I liked him so much. I'd see him giving a speech, press conference, or chatting up Jay Leno, and gosh darn it…I think he's fabulous! But, then another bank bailout, another flip flop, another promise broken …(ie Iraq, Gitmo, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, DOMA, lobbyists, special interests…banks, Unions, AMA), and my ability to keep liking him gets exceedingly difficult. How long do you keep justifying bad behavior to "stay in the relationship?"

As I've begun speaking out against President Obama's policies, and asking people to seek more from this administration than just basing their continued support on superficial "personality" traits, I've found that many are still in justifying mode….as I was over three months ago. I fully know how hard it is to start questioning someone who gave us so much hope, was so inspiring, and that we believed in with every fiber of our being during the election. This is a man who inspired me to not only believe that he could change the way things are done in Washington, but also to contribute my time and money for the first time in my life to a political campaign. I can't stand it when I find I've exercised poor judgment…that is a hard pill to swallow for anybody. Some are justifying by way of saying "he needs more time." That to me is like saying a man who hits you once should be given more time to "not do it again." A person who lies to you repeatedly, deserves your trust a little longer. We simply do not have the time to keep putting ineffective plans into place, and to spend any more money we don't have. Why wait for the next round of bank bailouts to start realizing we're in deep s%$# and the bailouts will not work? To this I hear "we can't just let the banks fail." It's too late…they already have. The money we keep throwing at them is doing nothing but assuaging our collective psyche and costing us billions. In my humble opinion, Obama should Nationalize the banks, and or eliminate their "supermarket" business model…back to just checking and savings. Take away their power over our Government. Will it hurt? Of course it will, but short term pain for long term gain versus long term pain for no gain is preferable, isn't it?

The latest Gallup poll shows that 89% of Democrats approve of the job Obama is doing….down from 91% the week before. Still high, but to me that just indicates we're not yet holding him accountable for the policy decisions he's making...we just "like" him. After what he did on DOMA last week, look for numbers to take a hit this week, and if nothing else changes, they will continue to go down. Personality can only go so far until even the most "attractive" person becomes unpalatable.

If you truly do want Obama to succeed and to keep this "relationship" alive, then he needs to hear from the masses that we would rather he be making tough but sound decisions. We want the transparency he promised us, and for him to remember he said we are his boss. Until then, the only ones he'll keep happy are the banks, Unions, the AMA…and those still justifying his behavior instead of holding him accountable…not exactly what he told us on the campaign trail, now is it?

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  • Public Discussion (89)
Lisa Schneider

I see President Obama as having a combination of good and bad qualities, and because we are not holding him accountable right now, then he deserves a second shot at doing what he promised. I'm willing to give him that chance, but he has to put the breaks on bad policies now at the risk of sacrificing popularity polls before they go down on their own. Like that Sheryl Crow song asked…"Is he strong enough to be our man?"

  • 2 votes
Reply#1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:51 PM EDT
Raymond Max

I'm afraid lisa that I'm reminded of too many past administrations, as I whitness the road testing of under developed Obama policy.

I won't B.S. you Lisa. You know that I came out stronger than most in the support of president Obama.

It is time for our President to take the training wheels off of the bicycle.

Stating disappointment in progress, while apologizing to the world and nation for America's past policies, as Obam's policies sputter in the background, is not the Presidents job.

While I realize that the Executive branch is but a small part of government, it is the branch that is in the constant camera light of the media.

President Obama has written a check that his body can't cash. Pure and simple.

The problems of the world, can't be solved by President Obama. I will continue to watch as events unfold. Remaining optimistic. I have to, it's in my job description.

Thanks Lisa for an article well written. Raymond.

  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:39 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

I agree Ray, but that's where the promising that which cannot be fulfilled results in hopes dashed. I remain a realist, which precludes me from being an optimist...much to my chagrin.

  • 1 vote
#1.2 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:36 PM EDT
Reply
Lisa Schneider

If you answered "policies" or "both" in poll, please share which policies you are happy with and why.

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:52 PM EDT
ABD3

What you are saying is that you wanted:

Iraq, Gitmo, Don't Ask, Don't Tell, DOMA, lobbyists, special interests…banks, Unions, AMA

Which I assume means: troops out of Iraq, Gitmo closed, DADT rescinded and the underlying military codes rewritten, DOMA repealed, abolition of lobbyists(?), Financial restructuring, etc by the summer? Not to mention how many things POTUS has actually done?

I think you seriously underestimate the number of interests involved and the resistance behind the scenes. I also think you are assessing from a very singular idea of "order of importance". I couldn't vote because you had to throw in the "I don't have a favorable opinion" after neither. I happen to base my favorable opinion on methodology. I think he is still sorting through a lot of his many responsibilities but I can follow his logic and reasoning.

  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:44 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

I don't underestimate the interests involved, but decisions are being made hastily and are not in the interests of those who voted for him...DOMA...he did the exact opposite of what he promised in campaign...Iraq-promised 16 months...he ran on getting rid of lobbyists/special interests, but they are driving his policy on bank bailouts and foreclosure legislation.

Did I say by end of Summer?

What I do want to hear is what POTUS has actually done...I may be too focused on all things economy because I strongly believe that is priority one right now...can you share with me the many things he has done? I seriously need something good to grab onto as a start...

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:26 PM EDT
ABD3

I shouldn't have to quote PolitiFact to you of all people but:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-kept/

I started to list them individually but that's a faster browse. Those are the thirty thus far kept of the 515 they claim he made during the campaign. If you're into stats, he has achieved almost 6 percent in 10 percent of a four year term.

Even though that may seem a bit much, it doesn't include the financial "crisis", GM, Fanny/Freddie/Indy/AIU-G?, etc. It also doesn't include anything that's happening around us; Iran, North Korea, SCOTUS nomination, etc.

Sorry, but right now I'm more for somebody else getting off their butts and running with the ball. It's easy for the Dems to point at the non-policies of the Repubs but where are all the ideas? If there is a lack of activity in Washington, it's on the Hill.

  • 3 votes
#2.3 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:01 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

No. 15: Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

Creating it is one thing...creating one that will work is another aninal, and I should not have to tell you ABD his HASP plan is junk on so many levels.

I saw the next listed was credit card reform...what he changed leaves door open for banks to charge other fees to make it up, and I'm not entirely sure that a cap on interest charges has been decided yet, has it?

I didn't look too closely at others yet...will respond after I do. More interested in seeing transparent results/impacts of any of these than just that he signed something...does that make sense?

  • 3 votes
#2.4 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:56 PM EDT
ABD3

I should not have to tell you ABD his HASP plan is junk on so many levels.

Actually you would. Not being a homeowner, it is an issue that only affects my wallet (eventually), not my circumstances. Personally, I want and need NO assistance but I doubt that is feasible so I have been waiting for specifics and their effect on me.

More interested in seeing transparent results/impacts of any of these than just that he signed something...does that make sense?

Not in the time frame that you are dealing with, no. NONE of these issues exists in a vaccuum. Most have been decades in the making. I'm not certain financial reform is possible at all much less in the 5 months that have passed.

Again, Lisa, I must point out that your lack of "pro" activity is a bit uncomfortable. For instance, how would you go about "capping" interest charges? Does that include loans, lines of credit, payday loans and credit cards? How do you void all of the legal contracts that already exist? And MOST importantly, what happens when the next guy takes office? I would be EXTREMELY worried if the President actually had the power to unilaterally change such things.

We all would like 0% loans and no fees for anything...but what if you are a banker? These are not simplistic issues and to toss about the lack of a solution is far easier than ferreting out the details.

  • 2 votes
#2.5 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:29 AM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Are you saying an 18% cap is too high? Or are you saying a 30% interest rate is okay? Gone uncehecked, these credit card companies are robbing us blind...if he doesn't have the power to regulate, he should not have promised reform to help the average consumer...yeah...I'm just a ball of pessimism...or am I...a ball of realism?

  • 1 vote
#2.6 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:53 AM EDT
ABD3

Are you saying an 18% cap is too high? Or are you saying a 30% interest rate is okay?

Unfortunately, I again have to defer. I don't have any credit and haven't for 25 years. I don't see it as a Presidential matter at all. That's Congress's job...his is to examine and execute the law. I know this line blurs sometimes and the President can also generate policy but I still feel it is Congress's responsibility to put ideas and legislation on the table.

He is one, they are four hundred thirty five.

  • 3 votes
#2.7 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:05 AM EDT
R.Francis Rubio

535 if you count the Senate along with the House! :]

  • 3 votes
#2.8 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:21 AM EDT
ABD3

You are correct. I was speaking of the House specifically since all money legislation must originate there but ideas can come from anywhere.

I don't think it's fair for everyone who watched the Yes We Can tour for two years to now expect him to do all of the heavy lifting. I haven't seen squat come out of his own party, much less the Republicans.

I never bought into the notion he was the "most liberal Senator in DC" bull to begin with. To expect a far left agenda with this supporting cast is simply unrealistic.

  • 3 votes
#2.9 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:37 AM EDT
Reply
MaryEllen Galloway

Hi Lisa, you say: " ... the only ones he'll keep happy are the banks, Unions, the AMA…and those still justifying his behavior instead of holding him accountable…"

Would you explain to me how President Obama will continue to keep ..the AMA.." happy?

  • 1 vote
Reply#3 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:38 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Sure...by not even considering a single payor health plan. Now I'm not saying unequivocally that that is the way to go, but to not even invite proponents to the table is shutting them out without even considering the option...he spoke to the AMA the other day...they are one of the most powerful lobbying groups, and his speech did a lot to placate them by pointing out he did not want a single payor plan...a lot of his supporters do...

  • 2 votes
#3.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:59 PM EDT
ABD3

Republicans will never support a single payer. It is very much in play publicly and is most likely to be a part of the final package. I would support it but only with insurance reform for the AMA to use as a pacifier. This will be a massive give and take but in the end everyone will look to POTUS to sell it, and he will!

  • 2 votes
#3.2 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:49 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Hi ABD!

Republicans will never support a single payer.

We need to stop pandering to them. It can be done through reconciliation if need be, and any plan, single payor or not is going to be met with their acceptance. With a majority in the house and 59 votes in the Senate, there is absolutely no reason is can't or shouldn't be done now when it could be the only time dems can make it happen. It seems we are bowing to Republicans far too often when they are at their weakest moment ever...why? I know Obama promised bipartisanship, but it's been proven already that he is not going to get that from them, so why keep trying at the expense of sound policy making when we need it most? He can only sell it if he leaves special interests/lobbyists out of the mix...ie cram down bill that he only got 45 dems to vote for and did not push hard on...

  • 2 votes
#3.3 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:16 PM EDT
ABD3

I said nothing about pandering. The system still needs to be designed. Are you suggesting Republicans have no role in designing the system?

  • 2 votes
#3.4 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:26 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

At this point, I would say they have shown they don't want to have a role. IMHO they are staying on the sidelines so when it's still bad going into midterms, they can say "see...if dems had only done it our way..."

  • 2 votes
#3.5 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:29 PM EDT
ABD3

Agreed, but I'm not talking about voting. I'm talking about designing. Ideas have to be mined. There are lots of little pieces of what people wish they had but there are real heavyweight issues about how to handle malpractice insurance and lawsuit costs, liability, etc.

I have no doubt as to his ability to pull the trigger at the end but I want to see an honest debate, as public as possible.

  • 3 votes
#3.6 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:07 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

That would be nice...one can hope!

  • 3 votes
#3.7 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:57 PM EDT
Reply
iroquis

Lisa;

I understand fully how you feel. I, too voted for Pres. Obama, and, I too, am somewhat saddened by the slowness of the change. I console myself by the realization that he is, in fact, not a liberal at all, and, the country is in far worse condition than we had ever guessed.

Obama has given us fiscal clarity, we must understand where we are first.

I am most disappointed by congress wavering on energy and health care. I am most disappointed with Obama about Gitmo, torture and the environment.

Take heart, he is our president, and the direction of change will be positive. Keep your readers informed, the most important thing we can do.

  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:31 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Thanks iroquis...I'm seeing a bit more coverage too that may serve to alert him, and will keep trying to ask questions. It's not a fun place to be, but the path of most resistance seldom is!

  • 2 votes
#4.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:36 PM EDT
R.Francis Rubio

I understand the frustration, I feel it myself sometimes!

Then I remind myself that Obama was sworn in Jan. 20th and today is June 16th!

Five months is a lot less time than the eight years we gave our last President, so I would say at least let the man have a year before we condemn him for moving too slow!

  • 3 votes
#4.2 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:49 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

I would totally agree if he hadn't signed the legislation that he has...in fact, I'd still be onboard completely if he had done almost nothing yet. I would rather he had one or two really good things than a lot of not so good...and I want to be clear here...I am not condemning him...that's a pretty strong word for holding someone accountable...and I am still hopeful he will put the brakes on and change course.

  • 3 votes
#4.3 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:20 PM EDT
Lampell

Five months is a lot less time than the eight years we gave our last President, so I would say at least let the man have a year before we condemn him for moving too slow

I wonder how much time would be enough time. When it came to pushing GM into bankruptcy he gave them a deadline of 2 months. 60 Billion dollars of your money to save 50,000 jobs. How about enough time to come out with spin like save/create jobs which is unproveable and he knows it. How about doubling the deficit and coming out 2 seconds later and saying that he will halve his own deficit. How about complaining about earmarks and signing a bill, reluctantly, with 8000 of them. How about giving Congress a deadline to pass a stimulus bill because if they dont the sky will fall in. How about handing out ambassorships to his largest donors. Did he need time for all that. How about letting the Federal Reserve buy U.S. Treasury in a massive ponzi scheme which prints money out of thin air. How about appointing a Treasury secty who besides being a tax cheat is from the same cloth as his predessecor?

Yes you can say, But Bush was worse, he did that too. The man was elected on a platform that he would take the office to another level and when you do that you put yourself in a box.

And for the best part which people apolgize for him that he's just adjusting,, Repeatedly said during debates and other venues that there would be no new taxes for the lower 95pct and then turn around to suggest taxing employee health benefits after criticizing his opponent for suggesting it. Adjusting, like he didnt know there was a recession when he was running?

    #4.4 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:45 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    60 Billion dollars of your money to save 50,000 jobs.

    Does this number include the 100,000 jobs we lost because of the GM bankruptcy? So many think we saved jobs...not if you look beyond line workers, but the price tag to save them was much more than we can afford...wrote an article in December saying not to give em the money...and here we are...

    • 2 votes
    #4.5 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:53 PM EDT
    Lampell

    Does this number include the 100,000 jobs we lost because of the GM bankruptcy? So many think we saved jobs...not if you look beyond line workers, but the price tag to save them was much more than we can afford...wrote an article in December saying not to give em the money...and here we are...

    I only used the number for who is left on the line. The President would of course disagree because of all the auto suppliers that would/could/might have gone under if GM folded. Many of those suppliers are already in big trouble with a 40pct drop in auto sales. It is in my opinion speculation as to what their status would be if they were to supply parts to the other manufacturers, some of whom include Toyotas made in the U.S. and Honda plus Ford. He should have known at the outset that this was going to be a black hole. There was little or no debate. So it only goes to show that when he decides to do something he does it quick.

    • 1 vote
    #4.6 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:04 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Dealership closures alone account for 100,000 jobs lost. What no one is considering is how many ancilliary businesses will be effected too...ie media companies who rely on local dealers for as much as 20% of their annual revenue....suppliers, non-profits, etc...communities will be hit hard. When I heard Obama spent all this money to save jobs, I just find it a bit more than disengenuous to take credit...those people who lost their jobs wouldn't agree. If he had done nothing, we still would lose the jobs, but we just don't have the money to keep staving it off...

    There was little or no debate. So it only goes to show that when he decides to do something he does it quick

    And this is my single biggest problem with him...

    • 1 vote
    #4.7 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:14 AM EDT
    Reply
    Lisa Schneider

    In case anyone missed the White House brief/position on DOMA from last week, this video of Rachel Maddow and Howard Dean from last night pretty much covers how bad it is:

    http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=xmtia

    • 2 votes
    Reply#5 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:33 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Out of voices, comes action. Gay community spoke loud and clear...and it appears their voices might've been heard...two options administration had to get out of this debacle: Repeal dont' ask, don't tell....or give benefits to gay govt employees. Looks like we'll be hearing something on the latter tomorrow...this is an example of what speaking up can do...THAT is what begets change.

    • 2 votes
    #5.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:32 PM EDT
    Reply
    Lukepccpa

    I'm not a Democrat, liberal, or Obama supporter, but it's good to see the left start to wake up and realize that their man isn't following through.

    It amazes me that the President and the Democrats have an unprecedented amount of power, political capital, and popularity, and aren't using it.

    If I was a liberal, I would be screaming at Obama and the Democrats to push hard and push now. They don't have a lot of time before the next House/Senate elections come up.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#6 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:23 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    I'm trying Luke...it sucks being discouraged by both parties...but what you said is exactly where I'm at on this...

    • 2 votes
    #6.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:59 PM EDT
    R.Francis Rubio

    in fact, I'd still be onboard completely if he had done almost nothing yet.

    I don't get it! You would be happier if he had done almost nothing or you would you be happier if he did only what you deem important?

    • 3 votes
    #6.2 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:07 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    How many billions would we have saved if he had done nothing at this point? Keeping in mind that the billions he's borrowed/spent have not made a bit of difference, and only put us in a position to keep doling out the money if he continues on same path. We were better off before the spending that won't help us than not spending and ending up in the same sinking ship...does that make sense? And it's not just what I deem important...I am not the only one who supported him that is speaking up...and I am not the only one who recognizes something is terribly amiss...I learned from others not driven by political party lines. Now, I'm seeing Rachel Maddow, Bill Maher, Ed Shultz, and even Keith Olberman questioning dems and Obama...like I said...I'd rather have a few really good plans, than a whole slew of rashly decided ones...thoughtful consideration of outcomes in lieu of signing anything his "advisors" put in front of him. All I can think at this point, is he was in such a hurry to do so much before the 100 day mark, that he didn't think them through enough...I wasn't in that hurry...he had my patience 200%.

    • 2 votes
    #6.3 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:22 PM EDT
    R.Francis Rubio

    The same was said about Roosevelt in his first 100 days but before his death in the beginning of his fourth term in office most of America thanked their lucky stars that they gave him a chance!

    All I'm saying is don't throw out the cake before it's baked!

    Back in Roosevelt's time a million dollars went a long way as opposed to today! Back then you were a millionaire and set for life, today you are still a millionaire but lucky if you have enough money to open a small restaurant!

    My grandfather bought a small four unit apartment building with with five boat slips on the water in Jersey for 35,000 dollars back in the late 50's, my dad sold it after my grandfathers death for 250,000 bucks back in the 80's and today you can't touch that property for less than 1,000,000!

    Billions is a lot but if you go back through history and look at spending VS GDP You will find that the percentage of our government spending VS GDP today is not all that different than any time in our history!

    • 3 votes
    #6.4 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:39 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Unfortunately, we are already talking trillions...and buying a four unit apartment building...unless you are approved to carry them as unoccupied for the life of the loan, you will not be able to be a landlord anymore....the banks will not approve anything less.

    • 2 votes
    #6.5 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:47 AM EDT
    R.Francis Rubio

    Wow!... Zing!

    • 1 vote
    #6.6 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:26 AM EDT
    ABD3

    Lisa,

    How much of our GDP do you believe should come from the passive "industry" of wealth management? I think the differences in our points of view largely lie in the techniques.

    As RFR pointed out above, his grandfather made an investment that paid off well for his son and would have done even better for his grandson. Now we want those same results but within our own working lifetimes.

    Such returns (when GDP is flat or declining vs imports) can only be achieved on the backs of other Americans. Add to that the wall street slight of hand that has turned it into casino and you have a class war waiting to happen.

    We simply cannot sustain an economy on real estate development and financial management but guess what? That's exactly what we have become and why I see every reason to change it and almost none to try and fix it.

    • 2 votes
    #6.7 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:53 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Agreed in principle, but don't we want some semblance of equal access to opportunity? Perhaps a man could not cover an empty tenement he wants to purchase, but he sincerely wants to do this for his livelihood, and to get ahead in life. He has 700+ credit score, has worked hard to save for a 20% down payment, but 50% of his income will come from renting the units...are you saying he should be turned down? Wouldn't this result in only upper income being able to invest in property to achieve sustainable incomes/returns on property as an investment tool?

    • 2 votes
    #6.8 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:52 PM EDT
    ABD3

    I'm saying that is no different than the guy who wants to invest the "down payment" instead in a hedge fund. Or the guy who simply buys lottery tickets. It's a gamble, just like any other investment.

    What you are asking is shouldn't the government facillitate this particular avenue and my answer is absolutely not. The government has no role when stockholders choose poorly. Why is real estate such a noble and protected venue?

    Stop and take a look at the model you laid out. When you say 50% of his income will come from renting units, I'm assuming you mean once he's purchased and rented them. What he has done is purchased himself an income. Does that seem like enough "work product" to merit a lifetime's income? Should his choice of venture and good credit score be enough to sustain him for life?

    • 2 votes
    #6.9 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:51 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    What you are asking is shouldn't the government facillitate this particular avenue and my answer is absolutely not. The government has no role when stockholders choose poorly. Why is real estate such a noble and protected venue?

    No, I don't want then to "facilitate" OR bar. If the government is going to have it's hand in banking, I would prefer they go back to standards of income verification, 20% down requirement, get rid of "boutique" loan products, and strict guidelines on interest rates/qualifying applicants. If it is set up only for the already wealthy to participate, then doesn't that put us in a position for the only the rich to get richer?

    • 2 votes
    #6.10 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:08 PM EDT
    ABD3

    Agreed. We need to separate the homeowner from the developer. We have turned homeowners into developers by artificially manipulating home values. The government has been more than happy to participate since it increases their tax revenue.

    Now nobody want to admit that what is needed is a return to realistic values and appreciation. That wealth was never real and should NOT be restored. I'm all for keeping individual families in their primary homes but not by assuming their loses for them.

    • 2 votes
    #6.11 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:37 PM EDT
    Reply
    Dryver008

    Hey Lisa. Nice write. Obama has disappointed quite a few folks. He's focused so much on health care right now and folks are still losing their jobs and homes. His claims of transparency have proven only to be a slogan he simply used to get elected. He's basically proven to be a professional politician. He's promised folks the world and, in my view, hasn't delivered on anything. His ego is so blown out of proportion because he's so much liked at this point. He honestly believes that he can do no wrong. What Obama needs is a huge dose of humbling. From the data I've been seeing the American people are still tired of suffering and realizing now that this promise of "help is on the way" was nothing more than a campaign stump he used to get elected. Polls are already favoring Republicans over Dems in issues on the economy. Unless he changes his ways the dems will hemmoragh seats over the next few years and finally he'll be forced to live up to his bipartisan promise he made during his campaign. He and his rubber stamp congress just aren't getting the job done. Maybe then Obama will become the great leader that he sees himself as. Until then he'll just be a globetrotting celebrity travelling the world while his country suffers.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#7 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:31 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    I could not agree more Dry. Promising the world was in my view, his biggest faux pas...the letdown that comes with the hopes that are dashed is a really hard one. Nixon said to Frost that his biggest regret was with young people...that his actions would turn them off to politics...that they will all just feel that all politicians are corrupt...how will our young people that were so energized feel if Obama keeps going in this direction? I wrote an article awhile back on Bushs' hubris being his downfall...I posed the question as to if it would happen also to Obama...at that point, I said "no" emphatically...if what has happened since he took office is any indicator...I was flat out wrong. I think you told me then! We were accomplices with Bush in letting him go to Iraq...giving him high approval ratings until we figured it out...if we don't speak up now, Obama will not be the only one to blame...we can all blame ourselves too.

    • 2 votes
    #7.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:46 PM EDT
    marcv-1026579

    Lisa

    As we all know, President Obama is a product of the Chicago political machine and was obviously a very quick study of how it all works. He is a great speaking charismatic politician, but I stress on the word “Politician”. We all have to remember that politics is loaded with lies and corruption. Everyone wants to try their best to love and support their elected officials, but we just keep getting the screws put to us with more lies and more corruption and NO accountability for those crimes. Broken promises are something I have just gotten used too through out the years. Democrats cover up for Democrats and Republicans cover up for Republicans. I think they all should go at this point. Term limits would be a great start in cleaning up our elected officials.

    I have mentioned this before, President Obama, President Bush, President Clinton are all the same animal. They are just puppets on a string! They will promise the world and when it comes time to deliver, here comes the good old Potomac 2 Step. He will use his media star power to cover it all up nice and neat and there you go!!! All done!

    Our soldiers will never leave the Middle East due to the oil! The conflict will only get larger! Our economy will deteriorate significantly around the end of the year and the dollar will no longer be the envy of the world financial system as we loose our AAA status. I am very worried for our currency system right now! President Obama needs to literally “hyper-focus” on the economy and put this on the front burner. I think he needs to ease up playing with his new toy (AF 1) and his town hall functions and get to work on just the economy. I will tell you this, President Obama better get educated quickly on the possibility of the Derivatives Markets crashing and it's implications! You want to discuss something that is disturbing! Read up on that!

    Do not feel like the Lone Ranger! Everyone I know who voted for President Obama is starting to realize that Obama is just another politician who will tell you what you want to hear to get votes. The Ideology and the promises given by politicians on both sides of the isle just keeps us distracted I guess! They are like magicians, they distract you with one hand while the other pulls the trick!

    • 3 votes
    #7.2 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    President Obama better get educated quickly on the possibility of the Derivatives Markets crashing and it's implications!

    Too late on that...already did the homework there! I'll try not to feel like the lone ranger now, or simply wait for everyone to catch up...contrary to what some would say...I truly am a patient person...now hurry up everyone, we do not have time for this meandering!!!

    • 3 votes
    #7.3 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:50 PM EDT
    Reply
    Pacific Northwest Blogger

    Lisa, Lisa, Lisa, always coming here to claim your vote for Obama but using every post to slickly put down Obama through the guise of being a supporter.

    Enough already, admit you're working for the hard liners on the right. You're posting track record is clear on that point...

    • 2 votes
    Reply#8 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:36 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Hi Pacific!
    Please check my articles from August to February...I'm pretty sure you don't even have to read them, as the titles will tell you from whence I came...
    I wish the right was calling him out on substantive policy...then I might have a party to belong to. But since they attack stupid crap like birth certificates, labeling of the day, whether it be socialism, facism, or marxism...and they follow Lord Limbaugh, Palin, Cheney and the likes, I have nothing for the far right...they are but a distraction, and a nuisance. So, sit back and watch me get attacked by them too...I can take it...I'm one of many who are "lone wolves" only focusing on policy vs political ideology...no one owns me, and it is a lonely place to be.

    I might add that if anyone has become conservative leaning...it's Obama.

    • 2 votes
    #8.1 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:47 PM EDT
    Dryver008

    I'll vouch for Lisa, Pacific. As of Novemeber 4th she was a card carry die hard Obama fan. She has just recently gotten her case of buyer's remorse as of the last few months. And if you read her writings she still speaks somewhat favorably of him she just wants him to get focused on what needs to be done. Pardon her for wanting more from our president. Now this right hardliner track record your talking about, you must be thinking of someone else. You may want to read up on the author before you start trashing them. Peace.

    • 2 votes
    #8.2 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:37 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Thanks Dry! What I'm noticing is with some, anyone who calls out Obama is summarily labeled as being far right, Republican, even unpatriotic in not so many words...or just plain old nut job!

    • 2 votes
    #8.3 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:56 PM EDT
    Dryver008

    To me it points to how much out of the loop some of these Obama folks are. Many of them are uninformed. Non political. Do not even watch the news. But they'll swear on their lives that Obama is the Messiah and say he's the best president ever. But they cannot name one of his stumps or one policy he is pursuing as prez. They're accurately called Kool |Aid drinkers. Ala Jim Jones. They'll drink the poisoned Kool Aid their self proclaimed Messiah places before them. And we know where that got them. Folks really need to wake up and realize this man is really damaging this country. States are sending their conservative representatives to Washington to act on their behalf and underhanded Democrats are denying them their voice. It truly is a travesty what Pelosi, Reid, and yes Obama are doing to this country. If Republicans did half of the stuff these current cast of crooks have already done, they'd be calling for resignations and investigations. They're transparent alright. Transparent crooks.

    • 2 votes
    #8.4 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:21 PM EDT
    ABD3

    Jim Jones died of a gunshot.

    • 3 votes
    #8.5 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:25 PM EDT
    Dryver008

    It's more about blind faith. Folks swear their allegiance to this man without him having a record, knowing nothing about him, and knowing he's probably the least prepared to be president we've ever had. It's like a Jim Jones cult. His followers are accurately called Kool Aid drinkers. American people just aren't this stupid. I swear they're not. We're very practical people. I just DO NOT understand it.

    • 2 votes
    #8.6 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:38 PM EDT
    Lampell

    Folks swear their allegiance to this man without him having a record, knowing nothing about him, and knowing he's probably the least prepared to be president we've ever had

    He was elected precisely because he had no record. No senator has won the Presidency since J.F.K. Trouble with senators is that they have track records on the national level. Probably why he voted present so often.

    • 2 votes
    #8.7 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:48 PM EDT
    ABD3

    That's a lot of generalizations in one paragraph:

    It's more about blind faith. Folks swear (What folks? All of them?) their allegiance (got an example of allegiance swearing?) to this man without him having a record (none, huh? No senate, no law, no nothing?), knowing nothing about him (again, nothing? He has written two books.), and knowing he's probably the least prepared (define prepared?) to be president we've ever had (really, EVER? Please provide the comparisons). It's like a Jim Jones cult. His followers are accurately called Kool Aid drinkers. American people (I assume this means the aforementioned "folks" are NOT American people) just aren't this stupid (how stupid is that?). I swear they're not. We're ("We" being the "American people" or the "folks"?) very practical people. I just DO NOT understand it (I can definitely relate!).

    • 1 vote
    #8.8 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:57 PM EDT
    Dryver008

    ABD3

    Let's steer clear of insulting someone's intelligence by dissecting the grammar in their text. We're all adults here I assume. Let's act that way. Why not try this? Read my text. Try to grasp my point and then counter. That's called constructive dialog. What you did really didn't accomplish anything but make you look pompous. I'm sure you're not a pompous person. I bet you're a very intelligent person who can really handle his own in debate. My comments are constructive. They're not meant to harm.

    • 2 votes
    #8.9 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:12 AM EDT
    ABD3

    That's NOT a grammar check (which would indeed be pompous). It's a CONTENT check. I've stared at "your text" (both that one and #8.4) repeatedly...I don't "grasp" anything but a whole lot of subjective, undefined generalizations.

    As for constructive dialog, why not try to define some of those terms:

    Underhanded Democrats?

    Half the "stuff"?

    Constructive discussion? Messiah? Kool-Aid? Come on!

    • 2 votes
    #8.10 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:37 AM EDT
    Dryver008

    ABD3

    Underhanded Democrats being that exclude Republicans from the health care bill. Underhanded Democrats being those that call a vote after the Republicans have left to keep Pelosi from being investigated on her CIA comments and halt funding to ACORN pending the outcome of their voter fraud investigation. All this is not misinformation. They really did that. Now let a Republican congress try it and see how the Dems would be calling foul. You would probably be the most vocal.

    Kool Aid drinkers is a reference to the Jim Jones cult. It's basically a warning that we should never follow someone blindly without knowing anything about them. The JJ cult member drank the Kool Aid so to speak that led to their own demise. Messiah? The media is really responsible for that. They crafted a legacy for him making him the chosen one to lead us out of our despair. Remember the Rolling Stone cover? That was probably the most pathetic attempt of them all.

    Hope I clarified some of the items you were having trouble with.

    • 2 votes
    #8.11 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:36 AM EDT
    ABD3

    No trouble at all. I was hardly hand wringing over it. I have read many of your other posts and most were very positional and orderly.

    Just curious at the high rhetorical content on these. I find it difficult to have that constructive discussion you mentioned with so many ambiguous terms. For instance, because I remember the Rolling Stone cover, I am supposed to cosign a concerted effort by them (and the other "media") to create a Messiah?

    By the way, it's alleged voter registration fraud, as in "Mark Anthony Jacoby, Hired by California GOP to Lead 2008 Voter Registration Drive Pleads Guilty to Voter Registration Fraud".

    Peace.

    • 3 votes
    #8.12 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:05 AM EDT
    Dryver008

    ABD3

    I guess it's all in the interpretation. If you're an Obama fan you'll see no wrong in what he does. If you're of other beliefs, you'll see everything wrong. I guess that's what makes this country great. We can have differing beliefs and not have our government throw us in jail or worse. I guess we could be living in Iran right now. Or Venezuela for that much.

    So far as ACORN. Whether the fraud is alleged or factual it still casts doubt on the organization. Giving them billions is just plain careless seeing the nature of the allegations. We cast our votes and send our representatives to Washington. To deny anyone of that privilege and let a community organization determine the winners in our election is a disgrace to this country. It's certainly not what our founding fathers had in mind. I think you would agree.

    So far as the RS cover. The Messiah comment is sarcastic in nature. The media, rolling Stone included, put forth an effort to make Obama something that he is not. With no record you cannot make any assumptions about anyone, including a candidate for president. And Obama had no record, you have to admit. He's building a pretty comprehensive resume as we speak though. That may not be a good thing.

    It's been nice chatting with you.

    • 2 votes
    #8.13 - Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:26 AM EDT
    Reply
    mac-525423

    Lisa and Pacfic,

    I remember back during the campaign discussing health care with Lisa and reading her posts. Being a conservative, it was refreshing to converse with her as she had legitimate facts and informed responses when so many liberals just used smear tactics on any one who did not bow to the Obama "change". I'm sure Lisa is a liberal and liberals should listen to her, any one who claims to be a conservative should also listen (and respect) her as she offers informed intelligent insight which open an avenue for us to unite and change the way our elected officials govern our country.

    • 1 vote
    Reply#9 - Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:40 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Thank you mac...I am so glad someone remembers. I do have to admit, I tried a lot more then to understand other viewpoints than I do now...perhaps now out of utter frustration, or just being so disappointed and finding so few things I can agree with...I just know that I want us all to be better off....dems, repubs, independents....it does not matter our party affiliation...we should have one goal...as one...to fix our economy and regain our strength. I have been beaten up more in the last two weeks by dems than by any republican adversary in the election cycle...perhaps I just feel it more acutely, but I have to persevere...your comment here reminds me that it's worth it...

    • 1 vote
    #9.1 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:04 AM EDT
    Lampell

    have been beaten up more in the last two weeks by dems than by any republican adversary in the election cycle...perhaps I just feel it more acutely, but I have to persevere...your comment here reminds me that it's worth it...

    It would seem that one goal would be for people to drop the labels conservative and liberal in the first place. It cannot be possible to be "liberal" on all issues or "conservative" on all. In the U.K. it is the Labour Party in trouble for getting them in their mess and here it was the Republicans. Its all the same when it comes to Congress. How can I get the most votes and what do I have to say in order to get those votes, pure and simple.

    • 2 votes
    #9.2 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:52 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    So perhaps what we should be doing is seeking to change that for ourselves...power of the people, right?

    • 1 vote
    #9.3 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:57 PM EDT
    Reply
    Lisa Schneider

    Chris Hayes of The Nation on Olberman tonight, on Obama:

    There is real concern and I think it is legitimate

    This is two nights straight Keith has interviewed Dems who are concerned...last night it was Bill Maher...it has to be legit if even Keith is starting to question...

    • 1 vote
    Reply#10 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:31 AM EDT
    Raymond Max

    The concerns expressed on both sides of the political fence are legitimate.

    We are talking about the next decade or so of our collective futures. If your in the system, you pay to participate.

    Many quality comments were expressed in this thread tonight. A quality debate.

    I am a bit supprised at the implication that some have given up on the vision of change.

    No one is more sceptical of Obama's motives than I am. Obama is an intelligent man. I don't think many will argue that point. So as an intelligent man. Why did he run for the Presidency?

    Is he simply operating under the influence of an enormous ego? Or does he truly believe that he can help America become a better place ? And if so, for who.

    I still believe it difficult for a Harvard educated lawyer, that has a net worth in the millions, to reach out and grasp the needs of the general public. That is my concern. The guys just a little too amiable. A bit too funny. He plays B.B. a bit too well.

    As I said in my earlier comment, I am taking a wait and see attitude towards his policy to date. Once again, is the glass half empty, or half full?.

    In today's news, we have the banking sector telling us that the recession will be over in 3 months. That is good news. And tomorrow morning I'm going to jump of the third floor of my home and fly. Don't have a pig.

    B.T.W. Lisa. Nothing wrong with a little bit of optimism.

    • 3 votes
    #10.1 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:05 AM EDT
    Marie Wrightson

    I too am quite disappointed in President Obama's progress. I keep telling myself it will be ok he will change things. He walked into a mess and from day one the republicans let him know they would be of no help to him. The majority of the country voted for him and I find it very hard to believe that he will let them down. I keep telling myself he has a plan and it will appear soon. What can I say? I truly want to believe in him Why doesn't he do something for the real hardworking Americans who are out of work because of the economy? Why doesn't he do something about employers hiring illegals.why doesn't he do something,anything to give us hope?

    • 3 votes
    #10.2 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:52 AM EDT
    Reply
    Sandy H

    The only thing that will surely get us out of an economic downfall is getting this president and congress out of our White House.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#11 - Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:49 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    If we only had that kind of time...I do think we should vote every single representative out in 2010...all of them. Perhaps that's the only thing more powerful than lobbyist/special interest voice. That's how I'm voting anyway...

    • 2 votes
    #11.1 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:22 AM EDT
    Reply
    ScienceGuy-356641

    Personality is what will get your attention, but policy is what will keep it.

    Obama is somewhat of a pragmatist, and he therefore recognizes the necessity to compromise in order to get more people on board with his programs. The danger is when you cross the line from compromising to kowtowing such that your principles and core ideologies become diluted.

    I have a hunch that Obama is following a fairly strategic plan with respect to which projects he wants to tackle and in what order. His ability to push the later programs will, to an extent, depend on the success of the earlier ones. Stay tuned....

    • 3 votes
    Reply#12 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:44 AM EDT
    DoctorLogic

    I agree. I actually think Obama is doing a very good job dealing with things that come up unexpectedly or on the agenda. With the mountain of issues the Obama Administration is dealing with, we need a pragmatic individual. These ideologues on both sides drive me nuts because on occasion, you have to look at given situation and adapt to the situation. Obama has had to "give" a little on his idealisms to match the given situation...I don't know of any others in politics that would do a better job right now.

    I knew Republicans would make it hard on Obama, but I'm surprised that so many from the left are giving Obama grief.

    Democrats better be careful or their idealisms may squander opportunity.

    http://doctorlogic.newsvine.com/_news/2009/06/18/2943749-obamas-worst-enemythe-democrats

    • 2 votes
    #12.1 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:03 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Left comment on your thread Doctor. My thought on high polls is that they artificially tell Obama he is doing a fabulous job and we just love his policies...many would give him thumbs up because they "like" him...I can understand that...he is hard not to like. But when you base your approval on legislation he has signed and the results, does it become a bit more difficult to say he's doing a great job? Do respondents take that time to analyze before answering? Eventually, and in the not too distant future, more and more will.

    I for one would rather have low approval ratings making tough decisions that pay off down the road so when the policy does bear the fruit we need, polls will go up for nothing more than results vs popularity...just me though!

    • 1 vote
    #12.2 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:20 PM EDT
    DoctorLogic

    I agree 100% with you. He SHOULD be judged on how his policies 'work'...problem is there is always going to be a segment of population that will preach they didn't work, even if they did or are in the process of working.

    I also would want the lower ratings given the scenario you've given...unfortunately, that isn't the way a lot of people vote. If there is enough poor perception out there, he may be ousted even though his policies would work.

    • 2 votes
    #12.3 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:26 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Good point...wish so bad we could change the way people vote...I was hoping that our past experience in not paying close enough attention would accomplish some movement in that direction...still have hope it will!

    • 1 vote
    #12.4 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:43 PM EDT
    ScienceGuy-356641

    With respect to the polls, some folks are making a big deal that Obama's numbers have dropped a few points recently. That was to be expected.

    Actually, every political group polled lower, showing general public displeasure with government at large. The public recognizes that the GOP does nothing (hence their rock bottom ratings), but they're not convinced that they like what Obama and the Democrats are doing to get the economy jump-started. This is in part a natural outcome of our society's growing expectations for instant gratification and immediate results.

    Of course, polls only matter when parties are gearing up for an election. The state of the economy will naturally be the major issue being debated next year.

    The national economy is a monstrous beast, and getting a major recession turned around is akin to making a major course change in a giant cruise liner that has a small rudder. There is an inevitable delay between the time policies are implemented and measurable results are seen. Of course, there are so many factors that contribute to the state of the national economy (GDP, retail sales, housing market, trade balance, inflation, unemployment, interest rates, stock markets, consumer confidence, national deficit and debt, etc.) that it is not a simple task to determine when a recession has begun or ended. This is why for every "expert" who claims the economy is improving, there will be another who will insist the nation is still in the doldrums.

    • 1 vote
    #12.5 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
    Reply
    greg-709692

    No matter what people think, Good or Bad, It is still going to cost everyone.

    Prove me wrong and name one policy that doesn't cost the government money!

    The government income is dwindeling as our income is dwindeling, and, everybody thinks these policies are going to be a free money pass for us.

    "The government is going to pick up the check"! Yippie!!!

    Crap, I'm Broke now! What happened?

    WHERE DOES GOVERNMENT GET ITS MONEY FROM? IS CHINA THE NEW BANK, OR, DOES IT COME FROM US!

    • 1 vote
    Reply#13 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:44 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Printing Press at the mint I'm afraid.

    • 2 votes
    #13.1 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:44 PM EDT
    greg-709692

    Printing Press at the mint I'm afraid

    LOL!!!

    Can I have one of those, I'm getting low on the income and bill pay side!

    • 1 vote
    #13.2 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:50 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    I bought one the other day...it's fabulous!!!

    • 2 votes
    #13.3 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:22 PM EDT
    greg-709692

    Are you in a sharing mood!!!!

    • 1 vote
    #13.4 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:28 PM EDT
    DoctorLogic

    I think we made a 'love connection'!

    • 1 vote
    #13.5 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:38 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    LOL! Wow...money does talk! I don't know if I'm ready to share yet...still in hoarding mode!

    • 1 vote
    #13.6 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:49 PM EDT
    greg-709692

    Oh Doc:

    Your just jealous!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkOmcIl79s

    • 1 vote
    #13.7 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:06 PM EDT
    DoctorLogic

    HA! Are you the keyboard player or the guitarist? Which one is Lisa?

    I think we've strayed off topic. :)

    • 1 vote
    #13.8 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:13 PM EDT
    greg-709692

    That's AOK. Sometimes you have to, to keep your sanity after whats going on this year! I thought the money song would be appropriate to the conversation! Love the beginning about paying the bills and no money left!

    • 1 vote
    #13.9 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:17 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    I'll say I'm the one in the black, but I wish I could have the blonde's feather! Totally appropriate and the chuckle is much appreciated!

    • 1 vote
    #13.10 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:44 PM EDT
    greg-709692

    I'll say I'm the one in the black

    Then I'd have to say, YOU HOT!!

    Just for you:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WauFkb4jmCI&feature=related

    Thanks!!!! and, Your Welcome!!!!!

    • 1 vote
    #13.11 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:48 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    I am cracking up!!! LOL!

    • 2 votes
    #13.12 - Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:26 PM EDT
    Reply
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