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LISA SCHNEIDER

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In Bush There Was a Flaw…Excessive Pride Always Goes Before a Fall: Will Hubris Take Down Obama Too? (Revisited)

Thu May 12, 2011 12:20 AM EDT
politics, obama, bush, 9-11, terrorists, osama-bin-laden, obl, political-capital, polls-going-up-for-obama
By Lisa Schneider
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I wrote this article originally on December 8th, 2008. At that time, we had just elected Barack Obama our 44th President of the United States. I was enormously enthusiastic, and had zero doubt that he would not succumb to hubris. I wrote this though because at that time, I decided that we should all still be vigilant. Obama himself asked us to hold him accountable, so I was determined to maintain a watchful and discerning eye…something Obama himself asked all of us to do during the election. My opinion in this original article is right there, but two and a half years later…we find ourselves in a position to either help him get out of the way of himself, or to turn the same blind eye we did with Bush.  He has that same political capital…will he use it for us, or squander it? It is your decision how to best help Obama be a truly historic President, or to rue your hand in his demise years later…either way, now is the time where your ownership will be defined. Please read what I wrote as an Obama supporter just over two years ago…perhaps it will help you decide your route forward...:

http://sperrys.newsvine.com/_news/2008/12/30/2260174-in-bush-there-was-a-flawexcessive-pride-always-goes-before-a-fall-will-hubris-take-down-obama-too

In the Greek tragedy, "Oedipus Rex," Sophocles told us a story of pride, in its most debilitating form. Oedipus, having the admiration, love, and "high ratings" of a people enamored with his solving the riddle of the Sphinx, erroneously thought he could then do whatever he pleased, his only guide being his mood or wants, without thoughtful consideration of opposing views. This can be likened to the Presidency of George W. Bush on so many levels.

Think back to the overwhelming response given George W., when he took a bullhorn in hand, and pronounced to the country that we would not take the events of 9/11 sitting down.

We all cheered, and showered him with an 80% approval rating…we wanted blood, and his message delivered us.

What we didn't know, was that he would use our approval of him (what is now commonly referred to as "political capital") to sell us on a war that should not have been waged.

Oedipus was, without question, also showered with love and admiration, by the people of Thebes. He was crowned the King of Thebes and was worshipped by the people as "[the] greatest in all men's eyes" (40) and "[the] noblest of men" (46). Oedipus showed grace in accepting the loyalty of his subjects, and embraced all of his power, yet began to show characteristics of pride and arrogance. When Oedipus vowed to kill the one that had killed King Laius, the old King of Thebes, Oedipus confronted Teiresias, and when he was met with resistance… his reaction was that of one displaying a quick-temper and stubbornness. He was outraged that someone would challenge him, and considered Teiresias' defiance an affront against the new King. Oedipus was quick to jump to conclusions, and without benefit of seeking other viewpoints, accused the prophet, Teiresias and his brother-in-law, Creon of trying to overthrow him.

But Oedipus believed he had the "political capital," and he intended to use it. Just like Bush.

There are so many parallels here it begs the question: Was Bush's repeated tenet "stay the course" a steady hand, or simply a perfect description of Bush's most fatal flaw? Could he have, with a more reasoned approach, avoided his own hubris, and the collateral damage to us all and the world? If we, collectively, had been more vigilant, would we have so eagerly let the blind lead the blind?

Even now, GW fiercely believes that his actions liberated the people of Iraq, and that will be his only legacy. He is like a criminal with no remorse.

<b>President-Elect Obama is now in the same position, and will he too become the victim of hubris? He is loved, and admired by so many. We are all putting our faith in this man, and he knows it. My answer to that question is a resounding…NO! I have seen this man hire a "team of rivals," so that he can be opposed to in an intelligent way while in office, and I have seen him reach across the aisle to be all-inclusive…even when it might hurt him to do so. I saw him having Christmas dinner with our troops in Hawaii, well past the need for photo ops, and well past the need to ingratiate voters. I have received invitations to community gatherings in recent weeks that seek to continue giving voice to the people.</b>

I remember vividly that ethereally bright sunny day in September when our world changed forever. I saw firsthand the towers burning against an amazingly clear blue sky backdrop. I also remember feeling, not too long after, the need for retribution. Living in New Jersey at the time, I remember seeing the cars, still sitting in the "park 'n rides" a week later along Route 17… at all exits, of those who didn't come back from their commute to Manhattan. And I remember believing in GW. I never took the time to evaluate his decision in going into Iraq…I just blindly trusted. I liked that he was taking action, believing he would take care of us.

A few years later, I woke up to find that he had not…and the man I had put my trust in was nothing but an Oedipus. A man with an enormity of pride, that would later, define his enormous fall.

 

 

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  • Public Discussion (45)
Lisa Schneider

Based on Obama's first two years (or first two weeks even) I do not hold much hope that he will be able to overcome his hubris...in this article written Dec 08, I look at my "resounding no" and the reasons for it...I am utterly ashamed. I'm not banking on him suddenly changing his ways now...my answer to the question within is unfortunately, a resounding yes...how sad.

  • 5 votes
#1 - Thu May 12, 2011 12:23 AM EDT
Lisa Schneider

CoH please...I'd like to have a thoughtful discussion sans our own hubris. None of us have all the answers, but when faced with politicians who make decisions that effect all of us...shouldn't we be having conversations about US and not what politicians tell us we should believe in?

  • 4 votes
#1.1 - Thu May 12, 2011 12:28 AM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Just one more thing...please do not leave comment if you have not read post start to finish...thank you in advance on that!

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Thu May 12, 2011 12:35 AM EDT
Mike Rupert

I didn't really read your piece here because I know your viewpoint, oddly enough, from the past; but I did skim through a small part of it, and you mention Bush being like a criminal with no remorse. An individual with no remorse is oftentimes a sociopath, which George W. Bush is. So, I give you kudos for that.

  • 6 votes
#1.3 - Thu May 12, 2011 4:01 AM EDT
Luther28

As poorly as I thought of Mr. Bush I do not think him remotely close to a sociopath, removed from reality perhaps but a sociopath is quite a stretch.

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Thu May 12, 2011 6:57 AM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Wish you would read whole thing Mike, but I'll take what I can get! :)

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Thu May 12, 2011 3:31 PM EDT
Mike Rupert

Luther, my guess is you're not familiar with the sociopathic personality. Your statement that Bush isn't remotely close to a sociopath shows me you're not familiar with the topic at all.

Lisa, maybe I can find time to read your piece later today. I do try and read, when I can :)

  • 2 votes
#1.6 - Thu May 12, 2011 3:57 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Thanks Mike...and I think I vaguely remember a post about Bush being sociopath a long time ago...it gave definition of sociopath and other than inability to love (he clearly loves his family), Bush fit the description to a tee...I'm thinking that was you who posted that way back?

  • 2 votes
#1.7 - Thu May 12, 2011 4:03 PM EDT
Mike Rupert

Hi, it could have been me, though I've seen quite a few here discuss the topic. And I don't have a thing against Bush specifically. There are people on the left who are sociopathic. In fact, you'll see articles talking about politics being the perfect playground for sociopaths to thrive. It's really disgusting and sad.

A recent article in Scientific American Mind, I believe, talked about the sociopathic personality and they showed brain scans of sociopaths and how the part of the brain that understands and regulates empathy is different. Sociopaths aren't inherently bad. What makes them bad are the terrible things they often to do others because of their inability to empathize with others.

  • 3 votes
#1.8 - Thu May 12, 2011 4:52 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

I totally agree politics is the perfect playground for sociopaths to thrive...disgusting, sad, AND scarey.

  • 3 votes
#1.9 - Thu May 12, 2011 4:57 PM EDT
Mike Rupert

I agree 100%. And obviously this goes beyond politics, whatever side you're on. We all know a couple and I hope over time people understand more and more how to spot these type of people.

By the way, Lisa, you're a good poet. I read your poem. Do you write poetry a lot?

  • 2 votes
#1.10 - Thu May 12, 2011 11:15 PM EDT
Lisa Schneider

Nope...just on Christmas Eve every year! I used to write a lot of poems when I was a kid...but the only time I seem to be inspired now is Dec 24th every year here on NV! I need to get better at it though...polishing up for this year! :)

  • 1 vote
#1.11 - Fri May 13, 2011 12:29 AM EDT
Luther28

Well it would depend as to your implication of a sociopathic disorder or a pure sociopath (an extremely rare animal) along the lines of say a Ted Bundy. I will give you that Mr. Bush may be socially inept or perhaps has difficulty relating to us mere mortals, but again if you are categorizing him as a pure sociopath I stand by my original statement that it is a stretch. Just a note, in the future I would not be quite so dismissive of those who do not agree with you or perhaps be a tad more definitive when bandying a word about and not presume to stand on a higher intellectual ground than others.

    #1.12 - Fri May 13, 2011 6:34 AM EDT
    Mike Rupert

    Luther, where are your examples or stats on the sociopathic personality? Where have you shown - anywhere - that you know what a sociopath is?

    And by the way, a pure sociopath is not an extremely rare animal. Estimates by many experts that 4% of the population is a sociopathic. That's millions, my friend. They're everywhere you go. Because Bush hasn't cut someone up doesn't mean he's not a pure sociopath.

    I think maybe, Luther, you have in mind the sociopath that we see in the movies. A person that kills. Only a small percentage ever kill. They're chameleons and know how to fit in. They're natural actors.

    You can read this if you wish: http://www.sociopathicstyle.com/traits/classic.htm

    • 3 votes
    #1.13 - Sat May 14, 2011 3:38 AM EDT
    Mike Rupert

    Well, Lisa, writing poetry is a cool thing. Might I suggest you write one on Republicans? Seriously dude.

    • 3 votes
    #1.14 - Sat May 14, 2011 3:43 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Only on Christmas Eve, but from what I'm seeing now, I'll have plenty of material! :)

    • 1 vote
    #1.15 - Sun May 15, 2011 12:27 PM EDT
    Reply
    ShowmeAliberal C DA WeaselDeleted
    DisplayName0

    LS,

    I only have to look at the alternative choice to get comfortable with mine.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#3 - Thu May 12, 2011 1:17 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Don't ever be comfortable with any choice...that is precisely what gets us into trouble...no?

    • 5 votes
    #3.1 - Thu May 12, 2011 1:38 AM EDT
    ShowmeAliberal C DA WeaselDeleted
    Lisa Schneider

    Thanks Show...I think my article shows how so easily we can get swept up in our emotions...I'm the first to admit it, how it can happen no matter the candidate!

    • 4 votes
    #3.3 - Thu May 12, 2011 1:44 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    This is the best, most thoughtful article I've ever written...most bipartisan, if you will. And like the first time around...partisanship disallows either side from seeing its value....woe is me...guess I piss off both sides equally. That is the lot one is dealt when they choose truth over fiction...both both parties are full of not only themselves (ie Michelle Bachman really thinks she's qualified to be President...really? Or Obama thinking he can continue with his policies to tank middleclass and win again cause he killed one terrorist...really?) Folks...our only hope is that we come together and get it right this time...don't go being distracted now.

    • 4 votes
    #3.4 - Thu May 12, 2011 2:40 AM EDT
    neenie1991

    I read it about 1/2 an hour ago and didn't know what to think. I'm late and it's tired. I didn't see the OBL killing as points for the POTUS. I voted for him too Lisa. I am not so disenchanted as you are. I wonder how different our expectations were. Each side accuses the other of deflecting and distracting. Can one of us go into congress with a bullhorn and say STFU and do something. Concrete. About jobs. The economy. Energy. Immigration. Something.

    • 3 votes
    #3.5 - Thu May 12, 2011 3:01 AM EDT
    ShawnD19

    Great article, Lisa. Bipartisan topics rarely do garner much response. Not enough accusations or vitriol for most.

    I was hopeful upon President Obama's election. I have been disappointed to discover that he a politician just like the rest.

    • 2 votes
    #3.6 - Thu May 12, 2011 6:51 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Thank you Shawn!

    • 2 votes
    #3.7 - Thu May 12, 2011 3:32 PM EDT
    DisplayName0

    LS,

    Fine to critically evaluate the thoughts and emotions that one goes through when filling out a ballot. But when it is done, its done; you can't undo your vote. I didn't vote for Obama in the primary but I did in the election; I never though he'd be able to do what he wanted or promised to try to do. Gosh, we live with an inefficient government called a Republic with democratic tendencies. Obama seemed to be more in line with how I think that the alternatives. I am comfortable with my decision. You can beat yourself up about yours and try to make be uncomfortable with past voting if you want. I made mine based on the available options. I made choice and live with it; future votes allow for corrections. Don't make this more complicated that it is. Just because you got emotional and had unrealistic expectations when you voted last doesn't mean that we all did. I will bitch and whine if Trump/Palin/Huckabee/Romney/Gingrich/Pawlenty/Pauil etc gets in the White House but most us will still be here regardless. That dynamic doesn't change (as stupid as that sounds).

    • 2 votes
    #3.8 - Thu May 12, 2011 7:16 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    I didn't vote for Obama in the primary but I did in the election;

    Ah...a Hillary supporter then? You do realize that she and her supporters started birther thing, right? LOL

    Just because you got emotional and had unrealistic expectations when you voted last doesn't mean that we all did

    Is it now called "emotional" to hold your politicains accountable? Doesn't that just take the cake...I'm just an "emotional" woman who didn't get what she was promised? LOl...Obama said to hold him accountable...I FOR ONE am...you all conveniently forgot that part of his stump speeches....which is amazing, given how often he repeated that "suggestion" along with all the others.

    You can accept what you got without "bitching and moaning" OR you can stand up and say...HEY...THAT'S NOT WHAT I VOTED FOR!!

    Your choice...just know if you do not start reading between the lines, seeing thru the bs...your lack of caring vote is one more nail in our collective coffin. Read as much as you can, and as many places that aren't politically biased...get past the "fog of great rhetoric"

    • 2 votes
    #3.9 - Fri May 13, 2011 12:40 AM EDT
    DisplayName0

    I am disappointed in your condescension. I get it that you are disappointed in Obama. Don't vote for him next time.

    • 2 votes
    #3.10 - Fri May 13, 2011 12:54 AM EDT
    Reply
    j-bird-2923980

    I see no paralell between "W" and Obama, the towers fell, the drums of war were banged, lies supplanted strategy and the masses loved an ass kicker. No, Obama has met the enemy and they dont like black men in the presidency. He acted in a measured fashion in regard to Bin Laden. Obama has recreated more jobs in two years than "W" did in eight. He is a man and imperfect and he doesnt do everything I want. I prefer that over a president who could not resist giving the impression that he was like "me" what bull@!$%#.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#4 - Thu May 12, 2011 3:50 AM EDT
    rls8r

    I just don't see the arrogance and overbearing pride that others seem to see in Obama. Certainly, nobody who isn't confident of himself or herself could become President of the U.S., but I don't see that Obama has it to the point of hubris.

    In your article you've put several characteristics in italics. "...and without benefit of seeking other viewpoints" - do you believe that Obama does this routinely? Some complain that he has too many 'czars' (who are, in a real sense, people whose opinion Obama seeks), and I'm aware that Obama often has meetings with various people (including Members of Congress) to discuss matters. What more, or what else would you like to see Obama do?

    "... quick to jump to conclusions ..." - I certainly haven't seen this. Is there a particular instance that has caught your attention? Some have complained that he 'pussy-foots' making decisions.

    " ... quick-temper ..." - again, I can't think of a time where Obama has lost his temper. I'll admit - I don't watch much TV, so I don't see coverage where he may have done so.

    "...stubbornness." - what some call stubborn others may call 'resolute'. Obama has compromised on many of his initial stances. I just don't see 'stubborn' in him.

    Lisa - what was the thing that changed your opinion of Obama. I'm sure it must have been a lot of things - but often folks abandon an opinion because of one 'bridge too far' or 'straw that broke the camel's back'. Was there such an action with Obama that changed your opinion of him? If so - let's hear what it is, specifically - or at least raise some specific issue that demonstrates what you claim - so we can have the thoughtful discussion that you ask for. I have no hope of changing your opinion, and I won't try to - but I would like to hear the specifics on which it is based.

    I'll be in and out all day, so I may not be able to respond quickly to any comment you (or others) may have.

    • 7 votes
    Reply#5 - Thu May 12, 2011 6:30 AM EDT
    neenie1991

    rls8r,

    Great post. I particularly liked this:

    "... quick to jump to conclusions ..." - I certainly haven't seen this. Is there a particular instance that has caught your attention? Some have complained that he 'pussy-foots' making decisions.

    I see him as measured. Sometimes too measured. I've often complained that I wish he'd fish or cut bait.

    " ... quick-temper ..." - again, I can't think of a time where Obama has lost his temper. I'll admit - I don't watch much TV, so I don't see coverage where he may have done so.

    I can't think of a time that he has lost his temper. I've heard harsh words when he has had it up to here with, usually, the antics of congress.

    "...stubbornness." - what some call stubborn others may call 'resolute'. Obama has compromised on many of his initial stances. I just don't see 'stubborn' in him.

    He has compromised. That is one of the reasons that many people are so unhappy with him now. He could compromise or he could get nothing done. I think he believed in the beginning that he could effect change and bipartisanship. It turned out that congress wasn't having any of that. It has been tooth and nail every step of the way. There are times when people think he should have backed down and another group thought he shouldn't. Lose/lose.

    It is interesting to hear people's perspective on the behavior and actions of the same man.

    • 3 votes
    #5.1 - Thu May 12, 2011 1:46 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    rls8r-

    In your article you've put several characteristics in italics. "...and without benefit of seeking other viewpoints" - do you believe that Obama does this routinely?

    To reiterate, I wrote this originally in regard to Bush, asking if Obama would be the same...here's the difference as I see it now:

    Bush was "the decider"...rarely if ever took anyone's advice.

    Obama pretends to listen to others for the showmanship of it, but his mind is made up prior to seeking council...he has an agenda, and people like Paul Volker who tell him what he NEEDS to hear, NEEDS to do, are dismissed while at the same time he makes it appear he values them.

    Lisa - what was the thing that changed your opinion of Obama. I'm sure it must have been a lot of things - but often folks abandon an opinion because of one 'bridge too far' or 'straw that broke the camel's back'. Was there such an action with Obama that changed your opinion of him? If so - let's hear what it is, specifically - or at least raise some specific issue that demonstrates what you claim

    You're right, it is A LOT of things. His hiring so many lobbyists/Wall Streeters even before inauguration, particularly Timothy geithner who had a huge hand in destroying our economy, was the first thing that alarmed me...his HAMP program was next, where he made it voluntary for banks to participate as he handed them over billions, no strings attached was next. Not listening to Volker on what to do with the banks (nationalize them ala Savings and Loan debacle), and disinviting him from the discussion was perhaps "the straw" and it spiraled from there. HCR is exactly opposite of what he ran on...and the premises he gave for his HCR campaign platform...I find that downright disengenuous as he disinvited single payor supporters from conversation at the beginning...that showed me he never had any intention of fighting for Public Option he said HAD to be in there as candidate Obama.

    He talks a good talk...I'm just not seeing the man I voted for walk the walk on anything...Bin Laden does not do anything for us past a few weeks of glee...now he's out on campaign trail, doing exactly what he said we shouldn't...spiking the football.

    I could do a rather lengthy laundry list here of what he's doing that is demolishing the middleclass...believe me, it's a long one. I appreciate you reading my article, and your post above...thank you for your courteousness rl8!!

    • 2 votes
    #5.2 - Thu May 12, 2011 3:51 PM EDT
    rls8r

    I certainly share your frustrations with the results of some of the efforts that Obama has made towards the things he hoped to accomplish. I hesitate to call anything said on the campaign trail (by anyone) 'promises' since considerations that are easily brushed aside (or are unknown) on the campaign trail often become very important and rate-limiting once a candidate is elected.

    I think, to a certain extent, that Obama's beautiful theories were beaten up by a gang of ugly facts. While he may not have accomplished everything he would have liked to (yet) at least with things like HCR and to a certain extent, the HAMP, at least he has a foot in the door. It's much easier to change things once there's something in place to change than trying to implement an entire new program de novo.

    I was disappointed in his hiring of so many lobbyists/Wall Streeters after he said that he wouldn't. Of course, nobody should have taken him at his word on that - I'm disappointed not because he hired those folks, but because he lacked the self-control to make himself not say that he wouldn't. It was a hollow claim from the start. Unfortunately, the folks who best know 'the system' and how to tweak it are the lobbyiests and Wall Streeters. The best I hope for is that Obama will get some of those on his team, but will have them use their 'talents' to set up programs consistent with what Obama has outlined as his 'agenda'.

    I also don't think that having an 'agenda' is necessarily a bad thing. After all - aren't the sum of all the campaign statements really nothing more than an 'agenda'? As far as having his mind made up before he asks for opinions - I can't take Obama to task for that since I do it myself. When confronted with a problem, I often formulate a solution in my own mind, and then ask others for their opinions. If they can convince me that I was wrong - then I'll change, but my opinion is 'the champ', and as they say in boxing, the challenger doesn't win on a draw - he has to knock out the champ to take his place.

    Well - I don't think we're too far apart. It's just that I'm not disappointed to the extent that I'll change my vote in the next election. I may not see everything that I'd like to see, but at least things, for the most part, are going in the direction I'm comfortable with, and Obama is taking us there. In addition, I believe he's actually keeping the middle class (of which I'm a dues-paying member) from being demolished. I don't see any body else who can keep the ball moving, as slowly as that may be, except Obama.

    • 3 votes
    #5.3 - Fri May 13, 2011 11:29 AM EDT
    neenie1991

    Great post.

    I may not see everything that I'd like to see, but at least things, for the most part, are going in the direction I'm comfortable with, and Obama is taking us there.

    I don't agree with everything he does. I wish things could be done at a faster pace. It's likely that any one of us that is interested in a particular issue thinks that his movement on that issue is too slow if it hasn't been addressed yet. He is not a dictator, the house and senate have to come to terms on things as well - we know how that's been going. Sometimes I wish he'd kick ass and take names.

    I believe that every candidate over promises. I wish they wouldn't but sadly, that's the name of the game. The 'condition' of the country when he took office way abysmal. I don't care who, what or why the reasons. There were and are no shortage of challenges for him. I haven't given up.

    • 2 votes
    #5.4 - Sat May 14, 2011 1:21 PM EDT
    Reply
    Luther28

    I am not so sure that it is Mr. Obama's failure so much as our failure to realize just how befouled our government actually is and our expectations for him to be able to overcome this. I am not sure there is one person out there capable of extricating our Country from this debacle, it will take a great deal more than the will and good intentions of one individual more along the lines of 300,000,000 individuals working collectively. I find his ego no greater or less than any other politician and believe that some what of an ego is needed to consider politics on this level.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#6 - Thu May 12, 2011 7:04 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Ego is needed, hubris is much more than just ego. It is when ego leads to things that are destructive to others. Bush unilaterally deciding to go to war with Iraq...he wanted Saddam long before twin towers fell...9/11 just gave him polical capital to do what he wanted...80% approval ratings were his ticket to flex muscles, bang war drum...we are equally at fault for being so "in love" with him that we did not stop to question en masse. There was a "lovefest" going on in '08 election, and we elected a guy with virtually no policy history for us to evaluate him on...went with that same blind faith. Another "lovefest" is emerging now...I wanted to post this again as a reminder...history is nothing if we do not learn from it.

    • 1 vote
    #6.1 - Thu May 12, 2011 4:11 PM EDT
    Reply
    Coral Atlas

    I'm not quite sure what the point of this article featuring a myth is about ..... to revisit Bush or to assert that Bush and OUR President are alike? Bush was stupid, inarticulate, clumsy, even self-deprecating ... there was no hubris there ... so the premise of this article is false to begin with.

    Is hubris a code word? Does his being black have anything to do with the concern expressed in this article?

    Did Reagan exhibit hubris?

    How about self-confidence and decisiveness .... dedication and devotion ..... intelligence and compassion ...

    not sure why the focus on the remote possibility that there is hubris in this equation .... it is almost as though you are feeling sorry for his opponents since by comparison they are so pathetic ....

    just reacting normally to the stupidity of the GOP could be interpreted as gloating by those who seek to keep OUR President in his place ;-)

    Should OUR President be reminded to know his place ....

    also not sure how anyone could have supported Bush ever .... I never did ... but then I guess I was one of the few who saw him for what he was on 9/11 and going forward.

    • 2 votes
    Reply#7 - Thu May 12, 2011 9:20 AM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Is hubris a code word? Does his being black have anything to do with the concern expressed in this article?

    Wow. Did you read article? It was written (as an Obama supporter) back in Dec '08 about Bushs' hubris and asked the question if Obama could succumb to same thing. I'm suggesting he has...it now being 2 1/2 years later.

    That was a huge stretch in pulling race card...HUGE stretch. Is that all you have, or would you like to re-read the article, and come back with something a bit more salient?

    • 4 votes
    #7.1 - Thu May 12, 2011 3:57 PM EDT
    Lisa Schneider

    Oh and in case no one was paying attention while you were too busy with your glee over Bin Laden....debt ceiling will not be decided now until early August...we will go over $14.3 trillion next week, but not to worry...Timothy Geithner "found some money"...however, he neglected to say where funds were found...do your homework!

    • 1 vote
    #7.2 - Fri May 13, 2011 12:54 AM EDT
    lvh-784809

    Hubris: pride or arrogance

    Dedication and devotion? To whom?

      #7.3 - Sat May 14, 2011 8:40 PM EDT
      Reply
      lvh-784809

      I've read it and once again appreciate your honesty and insight. :)

      I didn't realize you lived in NJ at one time. When the towers fell my Mr was working at refinery (across the river) and called me. I was then in Arizona, preparing to return to the east coast. My first concern was the friends I had that worked in NY. My neighbors son worked the center and still remains "out there somewhere".

      My first reaction to Bush's statements was..Oh no..here we go again..another Vietnam. And I was not wrong. Just an ongoing non-war.

      I did not vote for obama and will never. He is a convoluted person, of no serious conviction.

      He travels where the wind blows.

      • 1 vote
      Reply#8 - Sat May 14, 2011 8:02 PM EDT
      Lisa Schneider

      Thank you Ivh. Wish I would've seen he had no serious conviction sooner...really didn't have any quantifiable eveidence he would one way or the other....all hope! Never again. The Gingrinch comes out using same word...hope...I laughed out loud, hysterically! :)

      • 1 vote
      #8.1 - Sun May 15, 2011 12:38 PM EDT
      lvh-784809

      Haven't heard that yet :)

        #8.2 - Sun May 15, 2011 6:18 PM EDT
        rls8r

        I don't know about Newt using "Hope" as a campaign word, but he is using "Win the Future" (see, for instance, here). Perhaps he's just trying to appropriate all of Obama's slogans.

        • 3 votes
        #8.3 - Sun May 15, 2011 8:56 PM EDT
        FlyingEnergy

        Wish I would've seen he had no serious conviction sooner..

        I don't know where you get this idea. Obama promised health care. A universal health care system. One that made great sense. Yet Republicans called this communism. We compromised with the current system which nobody likes. But this was the only plan Republicans would agree on. Now they hate it and constantly blame Obama for a package they created.

        Obama wanted to fix the economy, but every time he tried our Republican congressional members denied action. Then when nothing got done they blamed us again.

        I really don't believe you ever believed in Obama. If you did you would have payed close enough attention to see that he has made big efforts to achieve his goals, many of which he has achieved. Secondly you wouldn't just go back to being Republican since they have completely opposite views. Views that I believe are terribly ignorant. Go to Politifact.com and check his promises kept to promises broken. You will see with explanations that Obama has attempted most of his campaign promises and any he hasn't would have been destroyed by the Republicans in congress. This argument that he let you down is clearly a political motivated lie.

        • 2 votes
        #8.4 - Fri May 20, 2011 1:26 AM EDT
        Reply
        FlyingEnergy

        Wouldn't you have an Oedipus complex? I would argue that this poem reflects all people who are in power. But what your ancient story manages to neglect is the desire most people have to live up to their expectations. Even though many may hate Bush for reasons they don't fully understand, I, a Democrat, do not. I believe he may have been misguided, idealistic maybe even a little ignorant or simple. But I don't think he was a sociopath. He was simply trying to live up to his fathers expectations, that left him vulnerable to the people who were guiding him. He had to place absolute faith in those people and I'm afraid they let him down.

        • 2 votes
        Reply#9 - Fri May 20, 2011 2:05 AM EDT
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